June 22, 2026

Practical Wisdom for a Deeper Prayer Life. How does phone addiction contend with our prayer life, and what can we do about it? Prayer Distractions and How to Deal with Them. BACON Soda Review.

Show Notes
Transcript

Today, we have a deep discussion with Dr. Se J. Won on the topic of prayer, and Dr. Won goes beyond the normal prayer discussions and will lead us into a wonderful blend of spirituality and practicality as we discuss how to enrich your prayer life, and why the tyranny of the urgent is less worth your time than abiding in Christ is. Se J shared one of my favorite quotes I’ve heard recently when he said, “We often settle for what we can do, what we can muster up, rather than what God can do…Sometimes we miss out on the fruitfulness of what God can do because we are doing it our way.”

I can totally relate to that, and I bet you can too, and I think Dr. Se J. is going to help us today to prioritize prayer and abiding over, under, and in addition to all of the day-to-day tasks of ministry and life that all of us face. It is a powerful and practical episode, and Dr. Se J. will close out that interview with a great prayer, but don’t leave yet, because Pastor Christopher and I will almost ruin it with a review of Lester’s Fixins BACON soda. Not Baking soda - that probably would have been better, but bacon soda. This is a soda that should have been prayed over far more before it was released. You will hear a former law enforcement officer testify, under oath, “This has some odor peculiarities that are similar to methamphetamines,” and the world’s foremost cereal expert suggested that “this smells like it will take ten years off of our life,” and, “I feel like I’m drinking a pig, and it's weird!” But before we have that rough experience, let’s talk prayer and go deep.

Notes:

Why “Help me overcome my unbelief,” is a powerful prayer.

We miss the presence of God sometimes because we are busy trying and doing.

We often settle for what we can do, what we can muster up, rather than what God can do…Sometimes we miss out on the fruitfulness of what God can do because we are doing it our way.”

When the pastor thinks “If its to be, its up to me.” In other words, when he thinks that human effort is the fuel for the church to succeed, then he inadvertently teaches that philosophy to the congregation, and that teaches them to rely on themselves, rather than God.

The danger of pastors thinking, “If I just sit around and pray,” nothing is going to happen.

The key to meeting the human-powered attitude is to surrender to God.

Prayer doesn’t have to be 60 hours a week, but it does have to be a priority.

“If we are with the Lord, hearing His message, and being filled by Him, and cooperating with the Holy Spirit, then He can do everything better than us - 100 times more - if we are an effective tool in His hand.” Dr. Se J.

How do you approach mundane things of ministry prayerfully?

Answer: I start the day with a clean slate, listening to the Scripture, coming to the office and praying, focusing on listening to God and asking for His help on the day. Throughout the day, I ask for His help as I process. Throughout the week, I skip one or two meals to spend time praying and listening to His leading so that I can hear and respond to the leading and nudging of the Holy Spirit. This means some of our prayer time needs to be when we are NOT doing all of the talking.

What are the worst distractions to prayer? 1. Overscheduling/too much on your calendar. 2. Dealing with the tyranny of the urgent and trying to solve problems on our own. As pastors and church leaders, we need to determine whether something is a distraction, or something that will advance the Kingdom of God.

How does phone addiction contend with our prayer life, and what can we do about it?

Often we choose not to pray or enter the presence of God because we are busy, or it is not convenient for me right now.

I am a processor, so I like solving problems, but maybe that is part of the problem - I am trying to solve the problem, but God calls me to be with Him.

“You walked away having spent time with God.”

The Baptist way is to try and teach people into transformation, but sometimes the best way to learn to abide is to practice the presence of God and pursue Him.

WEBVTT

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How can we have a distraction-free prayer life? Today's guest,

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Dr. C.J. Wan, suggests we ask.

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Is this a possible distraction that Satan is throwing at me so that I will be

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preoccupied or spent rather than being with the Lord?

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Leaders, and pastors find health, encouragement, practical advice,

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soul care, and resources that work together to build up your local fellowship

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and the broader kingdom of God.

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Join hosts, Pastor Chris Cole and Dr. Chase Thompson from the Great Commission

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Association, led by Dr. Mike Stewart, as they explore the frontiers of ministry

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and aim for the goal of making every church flourish.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome in to episode number 23 of the Every Church Flourishing podcast.

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We are sponsored by the Great Commission Association of Central California,

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and today we have a deep discussion with the GCA's own Dr. C.J.

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Juan on the topic of prayer. Dr. Juan goes beyond the normal prayer discussions

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and will lead us into a wonderful blend of spirituality

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and practicality as we discuss how to enrich your prayer life and why the tyranny

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of the urgent is less worth your time than abiding in Christ is. C.J.

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Shared one of my favorite quotes I've heard recently when he said that we often

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settle for what we can do, what we can muster up rather than what God can do.

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Sometimes we miss out on the fruitfulness of what God can do because we are doing it our way.

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Now, I can totally relate to that, and I bet you can too.

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And I think Dr. C.J. is going to help us today to prioritize prayer and abiding

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over, under, and in addition to all of the day-to-day tasks of ministry and life that all of us face.

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It's a powerful and practical episode, and Dr.

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C.J. will close out that interview with a great time of prayer,

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but don't leave yet because Pastor Christopher and I will almost ruin it with

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a review of Lester's Fixin's Bacon Soda.

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Not baking soda, that probably would have tasted better, but bacon soda.

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This is a soda that should have been prayed over far more before it was released.

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You will hear a former law enforcement officer testify under oath.

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This has some odor peculiarities that are similar to methamphetamines,

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and the world's foremost cereal expert will suggest that this soda smells like

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it'll take 10 years off of our life and I feel like I'm drinking a pig and it's weird.

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But before we have that rough experience, let's talk prayer and go deep.

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And we will welcome in Dr. C.J. Wan with the Great Commission Association.

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Dr. C.J., please introduce yourself. Tell us about yourself,

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your work and position with the GCA, and maybe a little bit of your history

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prior to joining the GCA.

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I'm glad to be here. I serve as the Associate Director of Mission and the Director

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of Operations, overseeing finances, compliance, and many other operations stuff.

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Prior to GCA, I was a church planter and worked also for an overseas mission

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organization. So I kind of been around the world doing different mission alliances,

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mission networks with mission agencies, and then things like that.

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Fantastic. Where all have you lived?

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I have lived in Korea before I got to US and then here in San Jose Bay Area

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basically is where we landed and Texas when I was in school.

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But California has been my home for 45 years. Okay. 46 years.

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So you were only in Korea for a few years. Yeah. Nice. All right.

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So how did you find yourself in ministry when you were growing up?

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Is that something you aspire to? Did you kind of accidentally back into it?

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Did you have a clear and obvious calling or was it sort of more subtle and gradual?

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I was born into and grew up in a Christian family. Mom prayed for a son for

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particular, like a Hannah prayer.

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I'll give you my son if you give me this son.

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I was a second boy to the family. And so that was what I heard.

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But soon after I immigrated to the U.S. when I was in 1980, I felt the calling of the Lord.

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Now, what that means to a nine-year-old means different.

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But I felt that serving Him was the thing that I would like to do with my life.

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So no other career or occupational choices seemed to measure up.

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I felt like serving God would be the greatest thing I can do.

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Ever since then, that's sort of been my goal, high school, college, seminary.

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And here I am after, I don't know how many years, since seminary in 1997,

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I continue to serve the Lord this way.

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So you were eight or nine when you kind of first began to discern the call to ministry.

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I know for me, growing up, there was only one period in my life where I kind of considered that.

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I was eight or nine myself. And a buddy of mine, when we went to a Presbyterian

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Christian school and we got it into our mind after a missionary came and visited

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our classes that we wanted to be missionaries.

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So we went around door to door telling people about hell and warning them about

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hell and telling them about Jesus. And kind of we were many missionaries there

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for a while. But for me, as I got into high school and

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even really college. I worked in a church as a youth minister.

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I worked as a camp counselor at a Christian camp, but a lifetime in ministry

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is a bit of a surprise for me.

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I did have a clear and obvious calling point when I had graduated from college,

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but it kind of came as something of a shock to me.

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So I understand that you recently were on a pastor's prayer retreat.

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Been on a couple of those myself, but they're all different.

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So kind of tell us the story of how you got to be on that retreat.

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Tell us a little bit about it. Give us some background.

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This February, Dr. Stuart Christopher Cole and I went to this pastor's retreat

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in Forney, Texas. Never been to Forney, Texas.

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But this retreat was a bit different because it was, maybe I was different.

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I took away different things.

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It wasn't just another conference or another seminar on what to do,

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but it gave me insight into how the prayer topic might have been misunderstood as an end in itself.

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And the prayer was one of a few ways for us to draw near to the presence of

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God. And often we left prayer to be prayer, things we do because we need God.

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But this allowed for us to think about what is the end goal of prayer? Why is it that we pray?

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It's not so much because I want to tell God everything I need,

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but really to commune with Him, to be with Him. And I think that was powerful.

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And for us to spend time with Him, if it did, just the amount of different things

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that could happen just by God being in our presence and change us inside out.

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And so those are the highlights.

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There's many things I'm sure I'll talk about in different questions,

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but that's, it was a great retreat.

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I think they used the word right. It was a retreat, not a conference.

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Who put on the conference? Who led it?

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Nathan Lino is the pastor of Forney, and him and one other pastor from the area

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actually puts this on twice a year.

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And this is one way for them to encourage, hey, we found something.

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It's not, you know, crazy, but it's actually helping us to stay in the presence

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of God. And so that's sort of what's inspired us, and we wanted to follow up.

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Yeah, that's great. So, like I said, I've been to several of these kind of prayer conferences before.

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I think every pastor, every mature, seasoned Christian leader knows that prayer is important.

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Just like pretty much every person in the West knows that good nutrition and exercise is important.

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But maybe most of us don't have a lifestyle of that.

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So how did the leaders of this conference, how did the conference,

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because I've heard feedback from some of the guys that went.

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I've heard that it was very special.

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How did they communicate the

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call to the importance of prayer in a way that was sticky, in a way that

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kind of went beyond just a few days of transformation into a longer tail than that, a longer impact?

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I think they've approached it really from at the end of what we want to get

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done through prayer. And prayer is one of many ways for us to approach the presence of God.

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And getting to the presence of God was their goal. And prayer happened to be

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one of those mechanisms rather than a prayer is a program or it's a template

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that we need to use. And so that was special.

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And they allowed us to experience that firsthand, not just through prayer.

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Seminars and topics and teaching on it. But we spent, I think,

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a good half a day just being alone with God and asking those questions and thinking

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through processes and what does it mean to consecrate ourselves?

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All of those were words we know of, but really something that we don't really practice.

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And that was special because we got to, I got to at least spend that afternoon

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just alone with God and what that meant and how that felt. And so you walked

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away, not just having prayed a lot of prayer, but you walked away having spent time with God.

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And so that was a difference maker, at least for this retreat.

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Yeah, you and I are both Baptists. And I think the Baptist way is generally

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to try to teach people into transformation.

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And I appreciate that. I mean, we've both been to seminary, worked in seminaries.

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I think teaching is really primary, but I like the fact that it sounds like

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this retreat was more about practicing the presence of God,

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to borrow Brother Lawrenceism rather than just kind of 90% teaching.

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We had a marriage retreat earlier this year with the Great Commission Association.

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And one of the things I really appreciated about that GCA marriage retreat is

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that there was intentional time built in to

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work on our marriage rather Rather than it being wall-to-wall teaching. Again, I'm a teacher.

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When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you're a teacher,

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everything looks like a lesson that needs to be taught.

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When you do that, you don't actually sometimes have the experiential reality

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of working on your marriage or, in your case, working on your prayer life and your ministry.

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I mean, your intimacy with God, and it sounds to me like it really harkens back to the old days,

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the Brother Lawrence, even before that, the Desert Fathers, the early church,

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who really did practice abiding, I think, at a much higher level than we do.

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So along those lines, what's, you know, the previous emphasis of the church

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on prayer versus the busyness of life today, what stops prayer from happening in the church?

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From the retreat and different meditations and things that happen afterwards,

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we come to, at least I come to realize that there's many things that's preventing

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us from being with the Lord, not just in prayer, but just being with the Lord.

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And the word they used was distractions.

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And I think that spells it right because, you know, it could be anywhere from

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fear of unknown, that's a distraction or ignorance. I just don't know what is going to happen.

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And sometimes we don't believe the words we actually study.

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And so we don't really think that, hey, I'm going to call on God and I'm going

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to expect God to do different things because I'm with him.

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And often we choose not to pray or to enter the presence of God because we're

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just, it's just inconvenient for me right now. I have too much going on.

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And you could use the word busyness of life.

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And many do that. And also there's a problem, I think, called religious insistence.

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We try to be a good follower. And we do a lot of things that we believe will be helpful.

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And so those are many things that I think hinders us. But under that word distraction,

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these are my thoughts, not theirs.

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And so I don't want to misquote anybody that has taught and let that retreat.

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But the word busyness and distraction, I think we could include things like this.

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Strategies, plans, preparations, convictions, passion, you know,

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and we do audits and accountability and we do numbers and we do events, budget.

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I mean, you think about so many ways we do church or ministry life,

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and a lot of it is really us trying to make this work. I'm not saying it's bad.

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None of these are bad, but I think we have bought into the idea that we do the

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99% preparation, and ask God to bless a spiritual blessing over our plan rather

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than spending a lot of time with the Lord who has greater plan than us.

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And so for me, that was the wake-up call.

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I am a processor, so I like solving problems, but maybe that's the problem.

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And that I am trying to solve the problem when God is saying,

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no, I want you to be with me.

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So that's a distraction. Many things that I just listed are many,

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many distractions that are pulling people away from being with the Father.

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Well, I want to get into some of those distractions and some...

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Ways we can overcome them. But I think you put your finger there on the thing

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that might be the primary issue. And, you know, it's the old adage,

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if it's to be, it's up to me.

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I think church leaders in particular, pastors, their experience gets them to

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the place where they wouldn't vocalize that, but they'll say that.

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And so therefore, the church with the leader thinking that, thinking that human

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effort is the fuel that will get us to fruitfulness and success,

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they fall into that trap.

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I think that's one of the biggest, maybe the primary obstacle is self-dependence.

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So a pastor is listening to this and he kind of feels that burden of,

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I got to make things happen, man.

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I'm too busy to pray and I know I should pray, but if I just sit around and

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pray, none of this stuff is going to happen. So Dr. CJ, what do you say to them?

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How do you get them to overcome that first and foremost obstacle?

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I think it's got to be where we just surrender.

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And that is a word I've been chewing on, doing teachings on and books I read

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and other things. But for us to really surrender and say, God, this is your ministry.

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I'm called to do your work and I need to be with you so that I could understand

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and hear the voice and messages that you want me to have. Now,

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that doesn't have to be, you know, 60 hours a week, but it has to be a priority.

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It has to be something that we do and set aside intentionally.

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Otherwise, schedules, calendars will get filled up and other things will crowd

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our time and we will get distracted.

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And I didn't mention this, but, you know, problems and troubles are distractions.

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Tragedies are distractions.

00:15:30.438 --> 00:15:35.266
They're bad in itself. But when, you know, the urgent matters happen and success

00:15:35.266 --> 00:15:38.566
and failures and all of these things that comes with our ministry

00:15:39.186 --> 00:15:44.306
tends to pull us away from the presence of God rather than draw us closer to

00:15:44.306 --> 00:15:45.970
the presence of God. And I think

00:15:46.295 --> 00:15:50.852
For us, first is admit, Lord, I need you. I can't do this without you.

00:15:51.341 --> 00:15:54.601
Rather than saying, Lord, let me try 10 more times on my own.

00:15:56.105 --> 00:16:00.231
And then if all of that fails, which will fail, then I'll come back to you.

00:16:00.231 --> 00:16:04.959
And so I think it starts there for us to say, Lord, this is yours. I'm yours.

00:16:05.074 --> 00:16:09.956
And I can't do anything better than to spend time with you and make that a priority.

00:16:10.079 --> 00:16:14.741
And if we are with the Lord, hearing his message, being filled by him and cooperating

00:16:14.741 --> 00:16:19.401
with the Holy Spirit that's in us, then you know what? He could do everything better than us.

00:16:20.121 --> 00:16:25.270
And 10 times, 100 times more, if we are actually an effective tool in his hand. Yeah.

00:16:25.381 --> 00:16:33.751
Amen. So I was raised by a dad who was a great dad, but that taught me to value

00:16:33.751 --> 00:16:37.661
effort, try hard as the key to success.

00:16:37.661 --> 00:16:43.101
And he's a very successful man. And that has spilled over into my ministry.

00:16:44.101 --> 00:16:48.501
That's my wiring. And for me, it helps to, not that that's wrong.

00:16:48.501 --> 00:16:51.234
I mean, I think effort is still incredibly important.

00:16:51.373 --> 00:16:54.511
It's just not our fuel source.

00:16:54.511 --> 00:16:59.291
And to me, it helps to meditate on verses like Jeremiah 17, 5,

00:16:59.291 --> 00:17:05.251
where it says, cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength,

00:17:05.251 --> 00:17:07.279
whose heart turns away from the Lord.

00:17:07.557 --> 00:17:12.791
I mean, my natural tendency is to do that. And I have, I've preached about this

00:17:12.791 --> 00:17:18.511
verse so many times you'd think I would have mastered it and lived it and walked in it.

00:17:18.511 --> 00:17:23.061
But one of the reasons why I preach about second Corinthians 12 is it's just

00:17:23.461 --> 00:17:32.851
so contrary to my nature where Paul talks about how God's power is made perfect in weakness.

00:17:32.851 --> 00:17:37.301
And when I am weak, then I am strong. And I think that's, that's a huge key

00:17:37.301 --> 00:17:42.926
to abiding. It's lowering your trust in yourself and

00:17:43.256 --> 00:17:48.196
raising your fundamental trust in God and what he can do.

00:17:48.428 --> 00:17:51.267
One of the first podcasts we had with you, I think it was episode six,

00:17:51.267 --> 00:17:55.317
you said something that has really stuck with me in your role as the director

00:17:55.317 --> 00:17:57.727
of operations for the GCA.

00:17:58.347 --> 00:18:01.627
You were talking about how you had all this administrative scheduling,

00:18:02.027 --> 00:18:06.998
complicated things to do, and you tried to approach it from a point of prayer.

00:18:07.323 --> 00:18:13.760
And, you know, most beaver processor type personalities would say,

00:18:13.760 --> 00:18:15.288
well, how do you even do that?

00:18:15.561 --> 00:18:17.854
So I'll kind of throw that question on you.

00:18:18.132 --> 00:18:24.910
How do you process, how do you approach mundane things of ministry prayerfully?

00:18:25.810 --> 00:18:30.091
The way I do it is probably not the best way to do it, or this is just one way.

00:18:30.224 --> 00:18:33.545
But I obviously start the day, hopefully with a clean slate,

00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:36.570
having settled any accounts with God before I go to sleep.

00:18:37.170 --> 00:18:40.950
But start the day listening to the scripture, come into the office and pray

00:18:40.950 --> 00:18:45.500
and have that devotional time when I'm just listening to God and asking him,

00:18:45.500 --> 00:18:48.874
Lord, I got a bunch of stuff that's got to get done today. Help me through this.

00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:51.533
Give me wisdom and discernment. And I can't do this.

00:18:52.398 --> 00:18:57.110
I want it to be done that honors you. And so that's really how I start the day.

00:18:57.110 --> 00:19:02.280
And then throughout the day, it's just processing, asking, thinking and talking to other people.

00:19:02.280 --> 00:19:05.530
And so it's not so much of how do I stop for everything.

00:19:05.530 --> 00:19:09.840
It's just I start the day and I end the day and I want to be in the Lord.

00:19:09.840 --> 00:19:13.600
And so that's kind of a regular day to day. But on a week to week,

00:19:13.600 --> 00:19:17.830
I also have a different, I guess, a cycle where I try to carve out at least

00:19:18.210 --> 00:19:21.580
two days a week when I'm just skipping a couple of meals and just saying,

00:19:21.580 --> 00:19:23.740
Lord, I don't have everything done here.

00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:28.310
I don't have clarity. However, I want to give you space and time for you to say what you want to say.

00:19:28.310 --> 00:19:32.320
And I want to be sensitive. And that word is still new to me because I,

00:19:32.320 --> 00:19:35.703
again, as being Baptist and being trained in theological training,

00:19:35.854 --> 00:19:40.259
sometimes we get weary about spiritual sensitivity and, you know, things like that.

00:19:40.404 --> 00:19:43.870
But I want to be able to hear the nudging of the Holy Spirit.

00:19:43.870 --> 00:19:47.718
I want to be able to respond according to what He's asking me to do.

00:19:47.852 --> 00:19:52.630
But I can only do that if I'm actually giving in time and space where I'm not

00:19:52.630 --> 00:19:56.670
babbling, where I'm not, you know, doing all the talking.

00:19:57.210 --> 00:20:02.573
At least a couple of days a week, I'm skipping lunch or whatever else and just saying, Lord, I'm here.

00:20:02.690 --> 00:20:05.540
You have reins. If you want to say anything to me, talk to me,

00:20:05.686 --> 00:20:09.912
remind me of a book or a Bible verse or whatever it is, I'm here.

00:20:10.063 --> 00:20:13.389
So I'm scratching the surface, I think, as I do that.

00:20:13.493 --> 00:20:17.991
But I could tell you this, that for all the years that I have served in full

00:20:17.991 --> 00:20:22.851
time, I feel like I'm at a different place now where I feel like I'm more attuned

00:20:22.851 --> 00:20:26.241
to and willing to listen to the Holy Spirit.

00:20:26.701 --> 00:20:30.663
And so it's scary for me, but that's sort of how I go about it. Okay.

00:20:30.971 --> 00:20:36.663
Praise God for that. So back into distractions, doubt, fear,

00:20:36.803 --> 00:20:43.147
yourself, and just practical distractions like your phone or the tyranny of the urgent.

00:20:43.415 --> 00:20:48.631
What would you say are two or three of the worst of those distractions?

00:20:48.631 --> 00:20:54.316
And can you give us some practical advice for church leaders and pastors to,

00:20:54.841 --> 00:21:00.702
ignore, overcome, step aside from the distractions to prioritize prayer?

00:21:00.812 --> 00:21:04.461
Yeah, I think obviously it's who controls your calendar is one,

00:21:04.461 --> 00:21:05.721
how much you put in there.

00:21:06.061 --> 00:21:10.506
You have to be willing to carve out time and that you do have control over.

00:21:10.669 --> 00:21:14.501
And, you know, sometimes, you know, for anybody listening out there,

00:21:14.501 --> 00:21:18.506
you know, for you to spend X number of hours preparing and studying is one thing.

00:21:19.051 --> 00:21:22.531
Do you have separate time that's carved out in your calendar to say,

00:21:22.531 --> 00:21:24.467
I'm just going to listen and be with the Lord?

00:21:24.595 --> 00:21:28.181
So I think that's got to be something that we intentionally have to practice.

00:21:28.181 --> 00:21:31.951
And that is to carve out time in our calendar, put it as a block time that we're

00:21:31.951 --> 00:21:36.413
just going to spend with the Lord. Not sermon perping, not doing my devotional,

00:21:36.616 --> 00:21:37.901
but just being with the Lord.

00:21:38.221 --> 00:21:42.601
I think that's one. The other is, you know, trying to solve problems on our

00:21:42.601 --> 00:21:46.581
own, which as we talked about, we are gifted, I think, in that area.

00:21:46.581 --> 00:21:51.321
Yeah, we like solving problems and we want to go head first and try to resolve

00:21:51.321 --> 00:21:54.771
issues. But every time that comes up, perhaps we should think about it as,

00:21:54.771 --> 00:21:56.492
is this a possible distraction?

00:21:57.032 --> 00:22:00.911
Is this a possible distraction that Satan is throwing at me so that I will be

00:22:00.911 --> 00:22:04.461
preoccupied or spent rather than being with the Lord?

00:22:04.821 --> 00:22:09.341
And so that's secondary. I think we have to consider everything that we're doing

00:22:09.341 --> 00:22:14.091
and facing and kind of measure it. Is this a distraction or is this something

00:22:14.091 --> 00:22:16.102
that's going to be advancing the kingdom of God?

00:22:16.305 --> 00:22:20.101
That's, I think, very important. And I would say, lastly, we're talking about

00:22:20.101 --> 00:22:23.218
the busyness of life. Things are going to happen, but you know what?

00:22:23.776 --> 00:22:27.761
We don't have control over those things anyway. And for us to come to a place

00:22:27.761 --> 00:22:29.001
where we just surrender and say,

00:22:29.001 --> 00:22:31.861
God, I can't control, I have no control over what this is going to be.

00:22:32.241 --> 00:22:36.851
And just literally surrendering that part to Him. Those are,

00:22:36.851 --> 00:22:39.981
it may be practical, it may not be practical for some, but calendar you could

00:22:39.981 --> 00:22:45.841
control and put a marker in your mind to say, hey, is this a distraction for me?

00:22:46.261 --> 00:22:50.201
To be with the Lord. Those we could easily do. And we should really,

00:22:50.201 --> 00:22:53.081
really look at the things that are distracting us. It could be phones.

00:22:53.081 --> 00:22:56.441
It could be movies. It could be good things, even exercise.

00:22:57.067 --> 00:22:59.610
Are they distracting me from being with the Lord?

00:22:59.743 --> 00:23:03.848
Yeah. Well, you mentioned one of those that I think is one of the biggest distractions

00:23:03.848 --> 00:23:07.214
we have now. We went through the COVID pandemic.

00:23:07.493 --> 00:23:15.591
I think there's probably a greater pandemic in our lifetime that is technological in nature.

00:23:17.048 --> 00:23:22.588
I think if we went back 30 years and said, hey, one day there's going to be

00:23:22.588 --> 00:23:28.025
something we carry around in our pocket that we look at six hours a day.

00:23:28.165 --> 00:23:32.678
Pretty much everybody looks at six hours a day. That's in addition to TV and

00:23:32.678 --> 00:23:34.230
whatever else hobbies we have.

00:23:34.375 --> 00:23:40.064
I think most of us would be shocked and we would have a hard time imagining, well, what possibly...

00:23:40.389 --> 00:23:46.336
Would capture people's attention for almost a third of the hours that they're awake.

00:23:46.336 --> 00:23:51.776
And I remember 12, 13 years ago, I went with two other pastors,

00:23:51.776 --> 00:23:58.056
church leaders, on a trip to a camp with our daughters. And we all were struggling

00:23:58.056 --> 00:23:59.888
with phone addiction at that time.

00:24:00.201 --> 00:24:04.506
And I was obnoxious about it. And I took a bunch of pictures of them on their

00:24:04.506 --> 00:24:09.396
phone and put together a collage. Not that I was any better.

00:24:09.396 --> 00:24:15.036
I might have been the worst of all of us, but that was close to 15 years ago.

00:24:15.616 --> 00:24:23.736
It was a long time ago. And I think bone addiction among everybody has just gotten worse and worse.

00:24:23.736 --> 00:24:30.196
I still remember in 2004, I went to Kenya on a mission trip and went to the

00:24:30.196 --> 00:24:37.536
Maasai Mara, which is next to the Tanzanian Serengeti, and saw all of these Maasai Mara,

00:24:38.096 --> 00:24:42.326
herdsmen in their traditional outfits on their phones.

00:24:42.442 --> 00:24:47.656
And that was like 20 something years ago in Africa, in one of the greatest wildlife

00:24:47.656 --> 00:24:48.876
reservations in the world.

00:24:48.876 --> 00:24:51.696
And man, it owns us. So again,

00:24:52.216 --> 00:24:57.216
we're speaking to pastors and church leaders who are struggling with phone addiction,

00:24:57.216 --> 00:25:03.096
maybe if they don't even call it that, but how can they practically and spiritually,

00:25:03.876 --> 00:25:09.627
discipline themselves to maybe set aside their phone and focus on abiding more?

00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:13.656
Yeah. Again, you got to carve out time and that's something you can control,

00:25:13.656 --> 00:25:19.316
but you have to be trusting that God will be in control over all the fear of

00:25:19.316 --> 00:25:21.794
unknown, you know, fear of missing out issue.

00:25:21.933 --> 00:25:25.926
God is in control of it. And, you know, people that are worried about what if

00:25:25.926 --> 00:25:30.082
an urgent call, you know, something happens and somebody needs to get in touch with me.

00:25:30.227 --> 00:25:35.794
Well, you know, even if you got that phone call, you couldn't do much unless God is in charge of it.

00:25:36.142 --> 00:25:41.657
And anyway, so we have to be willing to say, this is something I'm going to let go for a few hours.

00:25:41.808 --> 00:25:45.177
Again, can we do that for three days? Probably not, unless you're committed.

00:25:45.177 --> 00:25:49.367
But on a weekly basis, you can carve out one evening to say,

00:25:49.367 --> 00:25:52.698
I'm just going to, this is a time with the Lord. And start there.

00:25:52.890 --> 00:25:57.107
And I think God can do great things when we draw near to Him.

00:25:57.107 --> 00:25:59.711
When we say, Lord, I want to spend this time just with you.

00:25:59.931 --> 00:26:06.127
Yeah. I think far too many of us trade away the fruitfulness that comes from

00:26:06.127 --> 00:26:11.587
abiding for the technological advantages we get from all of these things that

00:26:11.587 --> 00:26:13.417
are part of our lives now.

00:26:13.417 --> 00:26:17.537
So along those lines, let's kind of slide into talking about humble,

00:26:17.537 --> 00:26:22.767
desperate dependence on God versus what we usually settle for,

00:26:22.767 --> 00:26:25.815
which is much less than I think what he offers.

00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:32.850
How do we settle for less than God's fruitful best when we live lives that just

00:26:33.013 --> 00:26:37.627
basically pray over a meal, pray at the beginning of a church service,

00:26:37.627 --> 00:26:40.321
but other than that, we're just living our lives?

00:26:40.611 --> 00:26:45.787
Yeah. Again, some lessons learned from the prayer retreat is I think we often

00:26:45.787 --> 00:26:49.907
settle for what we can do, things that we can muster up, things that we could

00:26:49.907 --> 00:26:53.007
try and make happen rather than what God can do.

00:26:53.007 --> 00:26:57.864
And I think that's a biggest separator that we have to be worried about as pastors and leaders.

00:26:58.177 --> 00:27:02.340
And we're pretty good. We could do a lot of things. We could create a lot of things.

00:27:02.485 --> 00:27:07.317
But sometimes we miss out on the fruitfulness of what God can do because we

00:27:07.317 --> 00:27:11.360
are trying to do it our way or we're trying to make it happen.

00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:15.900
Rather than letting God do what he wants to do. And I think it goes back to

00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:19.820
the similar theme again, but if we are able, just imagine, if we're able to

00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:23.127
spend our time with the creator, think about those words.

00:27:23.230 --> 00:27:28.080
If we are just spending our time before the creator, omnipotent God who knows

00:27:28.080 --> 00:27:31.253
all things, who can do all things, nothing is impossible for him.

00:27:31.358 --> 00:27:33.703
He's the author of life, author of salvation.

00:27:33.964 --> 00:27:37.740
He's in control, he's sovereign. These are words that I'm not throwing that

00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:42.840
you go, what, CJ, you know a lot of words. No, these are words that we all understand well.

00:27:42.957 --> 00:27:48.020
The problem is, if that is true, and if I could spend my time with the Lord,

00:27:48.020 --> 00:27:53.492
who is all that, and reaffirm that He is in perfect control, for me, I could

00:27:53.795 --> 00:27:57.100
live in peace knowing that, yes, there are things that I can't solve,

00:27:57.100 --> 00:27:59.118
but I trust in God because...

00:27:59.466 --> 00:28:02.392
As I spend my time with the Lord, he gives me a sense of peace.

00:28:02.717 --> 00:28:07.791
And again, an experiential thing, he gives me a sense of peace that I can't explain away.

00:28:07.912 --> 00:28:10.544
But that's, I think, the power of fruitfulness that we miss out.

00:28:10.864 --> 00:28:15.554
If we don't prioritize, I guess prayer is one, but spending time with the Lord,

00:28:15.554 --> 00:28:19.662
I think what we end up doing is we crowd ourselves with our attempts,

00:28:19.818 --> 00:28:22.186
what I think I can do, what I wish I can do.

00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.584
And then all the other things that come with it, all the worries and anxieties

00:28:26.584 --> 00:28:29.584
and discouragements and shame and guilt, you name it.

00:28:30.384 --> 00:28:34.814
I think our, you know, Satan himself and our adversary, they know how to press

00:28:34.814 --> 00:28:36.367
the buttons that'll frustrate us.

00:28:36.784 --> 00:28:41.814
And we do not get to a place where we're just really being in the presence of

00:28:41.814 --> 00:28:46.613
God, just adoring our Savior and sometimes just listening to the Holy Spirit.

00:28:46.758 --> 00:28:51.489
And so, yes, personally, I think we miss out because we don't have that experiential

00:28:51.739 --> 00:28:54.299
feeling from God and being with Him.

00:28:54.589 --> 00:28:59.274
The other is, we reap the other side, which is, well, you did what you did on

00:28:59.274 --> 00:29:01.904
your own. And so how's that going for you?

00:29:03.184 --> 00:29:07.264
And so that's the other thing. So he can do so much. He is able,

00:29:07.264 --> 00:29:10.914
more than able, to do everything on his own. And he could do so much better

00:29:10.914 --> 00:29:14.193
when we become a choice instrument in his hands.

00:29:14.332 --> 00:29:17.834
And that's, I think, where we would really experience different things.

00:29:17.834 --> 00:29:21.598
If we become the instrument of God because we are spending our time with him,

00:29:21.939 --> 00:29:26.512